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Author Topic: Starcraft 2  (Read 2580 times)
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« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2009, 01:12:57 PM »

Well then by all means, explain why!

I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to answer this without being too vague. I guess let me put it this way - given unlimited time and resources (instructors, willing opponents, etc) I feel pretty confident that after maybe a few years of practicing a video game nonstop I would be able to at least put up a fight with any of the best players.

However, no amount of time, energy, help, practice, coaching, etc, could ever in my life result in me being even close in ability to the worst football player in the NFL.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 03:34:48 PM by Proctologist Pride » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2009, 04:23:06 PM »

Well then by all means, explain why!

I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to answer this without being too vague. I guess let me put it this way - given unlimited time and resources (instructors, willing opponents, etc) I feel pretty confident that after maybe a few years of practicing a video game nonstop I would be able to at least put up a fight with any of the best players.

Likewise no amount of time, energy, help, practice, coaching, etc, could ever in my life result in me being even close in ability to the worst football player in the league.

Is a athlete to be honored then for their genetic predisposition to the sport? Is it that you feel your are physically unable to run that fast or catch a ball whilst running?  Why then not celebrate the reaction time and split-second decision making and co-ordination required to accel and pwn at video games; not everyone can think and react that quickly.  My Office mate, Kenji, was a national champion at the Fighting Game Guilty Gear, and playing him in that game and street fighter, I've learned that my reaction time just isn't the same as his. I'm all of a couple milliseconds slower, it would seem, and I'd chalk that up to genetics.

What seems to be celebrated more so than who is in better shape in a sport is the effectiveness of a player, as an individual and as teammate; for personal skill and strength at the set activity, and being able to interpret and react to situations and crises that arise on the field.  I do not have any scientific studies to back this up, but it makes sense to me that during a game, a player in Sports and a player in Video games has the same areas of the brain working;  Problem solving, reaction, and execution, among many others I'm sure.

The Athelete in soccer, say, must solve the problem of getting the ball down the field, either personally, or with the assistance of the teammate.  This requires spacial awareness, understanding of one's physical limitations and of the limitations and abilities of opponents on the field, as well as the limitations of the ball itself (how far it can be kicked in relation to how long it would take to kick the ball.

A Geekleet (lol funny name) in a fighting game, must solve the problem of pushing down the life bar of his opponent without losing his own, which requires understanding of the opponent's limitations and abilities that are defined in the game, and thereby the spacial awareness of the set 'field of play.' The Geekleet must also be aware of his own character's  limitations and abilites.

Both must react (particularly in fighting games and high speed sports like soccer or badminton) quickly and appropriately, with a high level of execution, to maximize the impact of their actions, wether that be shooting a ball in the upper left hand corner of the goal, or executing a string of attacks to maximize the amount of damage done.

Competitive Video games simply take out the physical, temporal aspect of Sports, while Sports take out some of the more long term thinking that perhaps video games require.  A Linebacker relies on brute strength and split reaction, and rarely needs to think more than 30 seconds into the future. A game of Starcraft, or Company of Heroes, however, requires reconnaissance and information interpretation, followed by planning several minutes into the future.  Nuance in football is reacting to the shifting weight of the running quarterback in order to predict his actions and to intercept. Nuance in Starcraft is noting the enemy's build order, or how a base is set up, or where they are expanding, wether they are rushing to air superiority and reacting accordingly with the best counter. 

*   *   *

Its a tough topic to nail down for sure. in writing the post I got to thinking a lot about a variety of different things involving video games and sports, and the sort of two ends of a binary that they become.  More deeply, I began to think about the deep seeded prejudice that some people seem to have against nerds, and people who heavily play videogames in general.  A lot of the derision is based, I think, around pride and ego of one's strengths. There is a stereotype that many Atheletes, thanks to the amount of time they dedicate to the sport they play, are relatively stupid or slightly unintelligent; uneducated. There is a stereotype that many Nerds, thanks to the amount of time they dedicate to the video game, or bit of technology they specialize in, will be fat, unfit, and weak. I'm sure you know some super athletic people who are pretty smart people, and I'm sure you know geeky people who aren't the least bit fat, and could run Marathons, or who play sports often. I know a LOT of people where I work, who are in incredible shape, and could also kick my ass in Company of Heroes or Call of Duty. I know a lot of people who suck at sports and suck at videogames -- but are better in other areas, but since those are perhaps productive to society, we'll leave that factor out.

Being that both types of games, Video and Sports, are unproductive towards society, why then is one any less admirable than the other? The military has recently begun to try to recruit people who go to videogame tournaments, to fly robot aircraft or drive ground robots, or even for military strategy ... clearly something is valued in a video gamer ... why then does physical prowess take precedence?

I'm not well versed on this next bit, but again, it makes sense to me. Homophobia, in essence, breaks down to Mysoginy and Chauvinism. Being coupled with a male is a feminine thing, being homosexual is feminine and therefore unmanly, and to be looked down upon.  Homosexuals are often very feminine and androgynous, and the hatred arises from that division of gender and appearance, and what some consider 'right.'  This paragraph could be better.

I think the derision towards videogames comes from a similar psychological phenomenon, reinforced with basic human attraction rules.  Women tend to be attracted to masculinity (broad statement, I know ... this'll be filled with generalizations) wether it be physical or social, and that might first manifest itself during puberty, when the human body is changing and the change is clear and noticed by all.  Since intelligence or mental ability doesn't manifest itself in a way that can easily be noticed, like physical strength or wealth, it gets de-prioritized. Since wealth is not always a factor on the minds of people who are still in middle school, strength and physical appearance then becomes the more accessible trait for attraction, particularly because of the changes that occur during puberty - the sudden, physical differences between the genders. At that age intelligence is not always something thats valued, even if its recognized, because it is not relevant to the primal ramifications that the sudden influx of hormones bring. Intelligence comes into play later in life, as does wealth.

The result is that males who are genetically predisposed to be thinner or to grow later than anyone may not be the best at sports because of physical limitations, and as such, are discouraged, and find other things to become passionate about. Furthermore, some people just aren't interested in playing sports, and instead find computers or mechanics or science. Those who play videogames (nerds, hereafter) compound the lack of physical prowess because most videogames are barely physical, and while an active brain does burn calories, it cannot compete with the entire body being active. Some get fat. Some don't because of metabolism or diet, but they become skinny or undefined, undeveloped,  and at a time when social status  in the hierarchy of tweens and teens is defined first by looks and athletic performance, this appearance becomes a Feminine thing! Multiply that by the derision of the weak that the athletic tend to have (through conditioning and a win-or-lose mentality), and I think we've come to the beginning of labeling nerds, and videogames by association as 'pathetic.' 

This is only the beginning however. Later on, in say high school, where being social and 'cool' is key to popularity, we find the nerds who weren't sports stars further ostracized because of the generally speaking antisocial nature of video games.  Even multiplayer games, with possibly the exception of console games or LAN parties are antisocial to a degree - conversing with someone on the phone is not half as conducive to communication as standing in front of the person, and conversing via text is not half as conducive as phone conversation.  Furthermore, most women don't find videogames nearly as addicting or interesting as guys do - why that is, would be another discussion, but the result is relevant; male nerds don't have skill or experience talking with females, and as such are not confident doing so, or learning to do so. Our nerds arent up to snuff on social interaction like the jocks are, who have been forced by the nature of sports and the attention they got during puberty to learn to interact and socialize. The nerds are further ostracized because not only are they unmasculine in a physical manner, but also in a social manner - being awkward and shy isn't a masculine trait.

So what I think this boils down to is the fact that Sports are considered Masculine, and Videogames are considered Feminine, and "surely a female athlete cannot compare to a male one"

We know this isn't true, however.

Subconsciously perhaps, I think, you're putting the videogames beneath sports and not at the same level because of their inverse relation to physical strength, thus masculinity, and thereby attractiveness to the opposite gender.

though i could be wrong :P



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« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 09:20:16 PM by Velvet Trucknuts » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2009, 10:08:30 PM »

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« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2009, 11:16:19 AM »

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« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2009, 08:20:47 PM »

The Athelete in soccer, say, must solve the problem of getting the ball down the field, either personally, or with the assistance of the teammate.  This requires spacial awareness, understanding of one's physical limitations and of the limitations and abilities of opponents on the field, as well as the limitations of the ball itself (how far it can be kicked in relation to how long it would take to kick the ball.

A Geekleet (lol funny name) in a fighting game, must solve the problem of pushing down the life bar of his opponent without losing his own, which requires understanding of the opponent's limitations and abilities that are defined in the game, and thereby the spacial awareness of the set 'field of play.' The Geekleet must also be aware of his own character's  limitations and abilites.

Both must react (particularly in fighting games and high speed sports like soccer or badminton) quickly and appropriately, with a high level of execution, to maximize the impact of their actions, wether that be shooting a ball in the upper left hand corner of the goal, or executing a string of attacks to maximize the amount of damage done.

This is a bad comparison. You address the fact that an athlete must understand the limitations of his abilities in order to maximize them and compare them to a gamer maximizing the abilities granted to him as defined by the video game. But you don't take into account the work and talent it takes an athlete to gain the high level of abilities that athletes have. I guess you can argue that an athlete works as hard in any given game as a gamer works in any given championship match (and even that I would question), but that ignores the years of work necessary for the athlete to gain those abilities, while a gamer's character's ability remains static and out of the player's control.

Do you agree with my sentiment that

 "given unlimited time and resources (instructors, willing opponents, etc) I feel pretty confident that after maybe a few years of practicing a video game nonstop I would be able to at least put up a fight with any of the best players.

Likewise no amount of time, energy, help, practice, coaching, etc, could ever in my life result in me being even close in ability to the worst football player in the league."

in regards to either you or me? Perhaps for example, if you quit your job and worked 10 hours a day practicing Guilty Gear being coached by Kenji and other champions who each in turn dedicate themselves to your improvement, that after a while you would be a match for him?

As to the last half of your post, I've never considered video games to be feminine so far as I am aware of on a conscious level. And I don't know if this means anything but I think that female olympian athletes have greater raw talent than many of their male counterparts (as well as every professional gamer).
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 08:29:37 PM by Proctologist Pride » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2009, 11:39:51 AM »

been super busy but I will be responding to this soon! ^^
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« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2009, 07:58:05 AM »

 :hehe:totally forgot to respond to ethan's response butt whatever

gameplay footage from the campaign:



The lava rise looks like an interesting gameplay addition, but I think that the portrait of Raynor in the side is a little bit stiff and lifeless.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 08:03:11 AM by Velvet Trucknuts » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2010, 10:42:29 PM »

This is for ethan/dave/steve/dan


Next week!


My handle is zombat.fxs, though I think they're going to wipe stats soon ... I'll be keeping the same name.


A few things about online play you should keep in mind, if you're doing ladder play: Find the entrance to your base area, and plug it up quick, if you're terran or protoss.

Some pointers from the 100 or so games I've played so far:

Protoss:

General:  Use chrono boost to get this research done as fast as you can.  Don't use chrono boost for making probes, save energy for zealots, and warp gate. As soon as you get cybernetics core, upgrade warp gates.  With warp gates upgraded, you can use chronoboost on research alone, and having fast troops is super important. If you have a surplus of minerals, more warp gates!  Make sentinels early so their energy can charge. Force field is a great way to slow an attack up your ramp.

If you're toss vs terran, its probably a good idea to get a quick forge instead of gateway and put a cannon or two near your rescources - a reaper rush is absolutely devastating for protoss.  Marauders are countered best by sentinels and immortals, and if you can, Collosi.

If you're toss vs. zerg, Phoenixes do NOT work well against mass mutas. Air to Air, protoss are pretty weak. Mass focus-fired stalkers and sentinels or psi storm is your best bet. Zealots get pretty ruined by roaches, so if you're opponent is massing them, stalkers are a good option.

If you're Toss vs. Toss, knowledge is god! Get an observer in their base early, and watch for proxys (pylons/gateways near your base)  Nothing stinks more than having a random pylon you don't notice become a quick insertion for warpgates.

Terrans:

General: Make command centers in your base perimeter and then float them to expansions.  its helpful to make scvs while the command center is being built so you can load them into the command center before liftoff, and thereby have instant minerals. Never use Tech lab/Reactor for blocking an entrance.

If you're Terran vs. Zerg, Choke that entrance asap. Your biggest concern is going to be the ling rush.  If 6 lings DO get through your base, get a marine out asap and use your drones to attack, otherwise, they'll all die and you're screwed.  Medivacs/Marauders/Marines is absolutely killer vs. most any ground they throw at you. Make sure to get stimpacks for retarded damage, and throw in some seige tanks for even more oompf.  never go terran fortress.

IF you're terran vs. toss,  Mass shittons of Marauders and Medics.  Toss have weak air to ground, unless they get carriers, which are easily taken care of by vikings.  A great support to marauders are Banshees too.

If you're Terran vs. Terran, make sure to make marines with your marauders so you can take care of banshees if they rush them.  Beware the medivac drop; perimeter turrets are super crucial, and remember to focus-fire the medivacs. if you see a bunch of starports being built, or two refineries early on, its wise to get ravens, or make sure not to use up your command center energy points for scanner sweep.

Zerg:

General: Multiple hatcheries should be saved for late game. New queen takes care of having to build a ton. ALWAYS be on top of using queens to make more larvae.  Overlords are NO LONGER DETECTORS; you've got to upgrade them to Overseers.  Always make an overseer when you upgrade lair first, sneak a changeling in if you can.  Nydus worm is awesome. You can set rally points for them! Spawn creep tumors to increase sight around base!

Zerg Vs Protoss: Beware psi storm late game. A single spine crawler does wonders vs a zealot rush.  Mass mutas is brutal.

Zerg vs. Terran: If you ling rush and they've blocked their entrance off, attack the reactor/tech lab if its being used to block, if not, focus fire the supply depot, and once through, go straight for the SCVs. Even if your lings get slaughtered, you get an idea about if they're going fast gas.  Always get some air for taking care of medivacs/banshees.  They don't have much ground to air other than marines/turrets, and if you've got a mass of mutas focusing on the medivacs, the bounces will kill off the marines.  Burrowed banelings are excellent defence vs masses of marines/marauders.  Infestor's fungal growth also works well there.

Zerg vs. Zerg: Upgrade ling speed quick, or rush to roaches.  Keep them defensive and expand while attacking.  Keep your armies diverse.  Get some corruptors to overlord hunt.


That should help with initial frustration. Also, you can start playing vs. computer, which is extremely helpful when starting out.
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« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2010, 12:44:33 PM »

mac beta is out
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« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2010, 04:35:08 AM »

Yessssss Yeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssss
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« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2010, 09:05:25 AM »

Anybody bought the game yet? Because Ben totally did and I have totally been playing it and it is TOTALLY AWESOME.  hehe
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« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2010, 09:29:00 AM »

Would a 2-year old Macbook be able to support this?
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« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2010, 09:59:20 AM »

There's an inter-office SSFIV videogame developer's tournament that I'm putting my spare time training for in two weeks, but after that I'll be going back to SC2 to see if they've balanced the game AT ALL since the beta closed.


2 year old macbook might be able to run it,  my current laptop is a year old and runs it, albeit a bit slow.
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« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2010, 10:23:45 AM »

I've contemplated buying the game, but considering how much time I spent on the old Starcraft, and considering I'm about to start an MA degree, it doesn't seem like the best of life decisions...
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