television

[TheOfficer]

Eamonn and I just finished Season One of Supernatural and holy shit, holy shit, holy shit. This show is something else, for serious. I'm not saying every episode is some groundbreaking thing, but the overall story-arch is god damn great and we were both pretty wowed and whated by the end of the season finale. I'm going to once again HEARTILY recommend everyone check this show out.

And because I love gifs way too much:

[Shire Le Buff]

it's what she chose ! i don't think a woman is strong just because she works or has a certain job or whatever- the strong ones are strong because they think for themselves. and sometimes they choose family over career ! my momma did. and that is not a bad thing at all, if that's what she wants. i'm not saying you're wrong nicholas, i just think you need to be more person-specific. i hate when people are like yeah women should be free and independent and make choices and etc, and then... in the next breath berate them for not choosing what you think they should want. it's like, um... she did choose ? and you gotta trust that they had their reasons for doing so, and not question it so much.

Pam didn't give up her career (which, by the way she had been wanting since the series began AND was in the middle of going to school for it) because of family. She gave it up because of a single set back and because she missed being around Jim 24 hours a day. That makes Pam seem weak, thus it makes her seem out of character to me. Then she works her butt off to get a shitty job in sales. This makes Pam seem stupid, thus it makes her seem out of character to me.

At least that's my two cents on it. I think the show should have ended with the third season.

[Larry Flyntz]

it's what she chose ! i don't think a woman is strong just because she works or has a certain job or whatever- the strong ones are strong because they think for themselves. and sometimes they choose family over career ! my momma did. and that is not a bad thing at all, if that's what she wants. i'm not saying you're wrong nicholas, i just think you need to be more person-specific. i hate when people are like yeah women should be free and independent and make choices and etc, and then... in the next breath berate them for not choosing what you think they should want. it's like, um... she did choose ? and you gotta trust that they had their reasons for doing so, and not question it so much.

Pam didn't give up her career (which, by the way she had been wanting since the series began AND was in the middle of going to school for it) because of family. She gave it up because of a single set back and because she missed being around Jim 24 hours a day. That makes Pam seem weak, thus it makes her seem out of character to me. Then she works her butt off to get a shitty job in sales. This makes Pam seem stupid, thus it makes her seem out of character to me.

At least that's my two cents on it. I think the show should have ended with the third season.

I don't see why Pam's weakness seems out of character.  She's always been pretty weak, ever since the show began.  Our introduction to her as a character was "the girl who is too weak to get herself out of an unhappy engagement."  It took her how long to break it off with Roy?  I'm not understanding why you expect her to be this shining example of strength.

I do agree that her sudden desire to be a salesperson is a bit out of character.  But, I think the point of that was just to show that she was confused.  And really, this plot line is more realistic than "Pam goes to art school and becomes a successful artist."  She clearly didn't like her life as a receptionist, and she needed something to grab onto.  Sure, she settled for less, but that's a very human thing to do (especially for someone as meek as Pam).

[oatmeal fetish....]

Hey yeah so The Office is going to be on for at least 3 more years and if you don't think that Pam might eventually end up an artist then you are not thinking ahead!

And in other news I think so far this season of Its Always Sunny is one of the best yet.

[Larry Flyntz]

And in other news I think so far this season of Its Always Sunny is one of the best yet.

I really didn't like the first episode, and I was nervous that this season was going to be a dud, but since then, it's been great. 

[CadmiumYellow]

i think you guys are insane for thinking pam's a weak character. she definitely used to be, but ever since she told jim how she really felt, she's been going after exactly what she wants in this world. and that's about as individual as a person can get. so she decided her relationship with jim was more fulfilling for her than computer classes in new york- so what. you're being too judge-y.

but whatever, we will probably never agree about this ever. in other news, i finally saw the office wedding ! finally posted ondemand. it was pretty cute 

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

I thought the whole thing was pretty lame-o until the very end when Jim had his little speech about how the boat was actually plan C, etc etc. Then I was all 

[Larry Flyntz]

i think you guys are insane for thinking pam's a weak character. she definitely used to be, but ever since she told jim how she really felt, she's been going after exactly what she wants in this world. and that's about as individual as a person can get. so she decided her relationship with jim was more fulfilling for her than computer classes in new york- so what. you're being too judge-y.

but whatever, we will probably never agree about this ever. in other news, i finally saw the office wedding ! finally posted ondemand. it was pretty cute 

She is definitely stronger now than in the early seasons, but I think it is silly to expect someone's character to change so drastically from weak to strong so quickly.  I think there are remnants of her weakness showing through, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing.  It makes her human. 

And I think Nick's point is that even if we view her as strong, she is using that strength only to pursue Jim. You said, "she's been going after exactly what she wants in this world."  That's not really true, unless we assume that the only thing she wants is Jim.  And that is either a delightful statement about love, or a frighteningly chauvinistic statement about supposedly "strong" women.

[CadmiumYellow]

a girl is not weak just because she decides to get married. she only gets lost in marriage if she allows it. marriage or having children or whatever definitely used to be end-all... you know, when a woman depended entirely upon her husband and only did housework and etc. back then, she gave up everything. but it no longer has to be that way. and you're into pretty oldhead traditional thinking, if that's how you define marriage. if that's how you see a girl's options in this century, at any stage in her life. that is not at all how i see it, but hey. i don't believe in those traditional roles. there are plenty of people who do.

also, you're not taking into consideration that a person's priorities can change. i don't necessarily think deciding to do something other than the thing you always considered a possibility makes you a weak person, either. again, i think the consideration of it needs to be more specific. not general woman-marries-man. if it's too general it's roles, and i already said i don't believe in roles. the only way to rise above roles and overly simple and dated definitions is to talk individuals. this person with this past married this person in these circumstances. this is what could happen in the future, for that person.

i'm only interested in newer definitions of marriage. that's the only way i'd consider it. a girl's life is only over after marriage if she lets it die. she can try to have it all, marriage, kids, personal interests, career- in the same way men have been balancing them for centuries. a marriage can be a union of equals, if both partners speak up.

[Larry Flyntz]

I don't mean to suggest that she's weak simply because she got married.  And I don't even mean "weak" as a negative thing.  We all have weaknesses, and there's nothing wrong with recognizing it.  I think it's just silly for anyone to think that Pam is an example of "a strong woman."  She's an example of "an average woman" (or "an average person" - her gender doesn't have much to do with it) with some strengths and some weaknesses.  One of her weaknesses, it seems, is figuring out what the hell she wants to do with her life.  We obviously know she doesn't really want to be a saleswoman - that's just a filler.  All we know for sure (and all she knows for sure, it seems) is that she wants Jim.  And hey, that's cool.  I really don't mean to imply that recognizing that you love someone is weak.  I just mean that once we get outside of Pam-and-Jim Land, she seems very confused, and somewhat weak.  And for that matter, so does Jim.  He doesn't really want to be a manager of a paper company.  The only reason he has stayed at Dunder-Mifflin is Pam.  And hey, if you're in love, that's great, but it seems that neither of them have pursued any non-romantic dreams (and the one time Pam tried, her romantic feelings foiled it).  Maybe that isn't "weak," per se, but it doesn't seem particularly "strong," either.  It's just... normal. 

[Famous Hogbert]

WHO GIVES A FUCK BECAUSE DEXTER IS THE BEST SHOW ON TV.

(yes supernatural is very good, but its 2nd best)

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

I don't mean to suggest that she's weak simply because she got married.  And I don't even mean "weak" as a negative thing.  We all have weaknesses, and there's nothing wrong with recognizing it.  I think it's just silly for anyone to think that Pam is an example of "a strong woman."  She's an example of "an average woman" (or "an average person" - her gender doesn't have much to do with it) with some strengths and some weaknesses.  One of her weaknesses, it seems, is figuring out what the hell she wants to do with her life.  We obviously know she doesn't really want to be a saleswoman - that's just a filler.  All we know for sure (and all she knows for sure, it seems) is that she wants Jim.  And hey, that's cool.  I really don't mean to imply that recognizing that you love someone is weak.  I just mean that once we get outside of Pam-and-Jim Land, she seems very confused, and somewhat weak.  And for that matter, so does Jim.  He doesn't really want to be a manager of a paper company.  The only reason he has stayed at Dunder-Mifflin is Pam.  And hey, if you're in love, that's great, but it seems that neither of them have pursued any non-romantic dreams (and the one time Pam tried, her romantic feelings foiled it).  Maybe that isn't "weak," per se, but it doesn't seem particularly "strong," either.  It's just... normal. 

Yeah I don't think Pam (or Jim) are any more weak or strong than any other woman (or man) out there in existence. And I guess that is something The Office has going for it. But I mean, even one of Jim's most  traits is a pretty weak one, if you ask me. I mean, remember the episode where they applied to that paper company in Maryland pretending to be Dwight and then Pam told Jim he should really apply and he was all "But its in Maryland..." and she was all "..." and then later she was like "I'm sorry?" and he was like "It's okay I'm in love with you so I act like a moron." and then he said something to the camera along the lines of "If Pam ever stopped working here"? REMEMBER THAT??? Jeeze what a pathetic loser.

[Larry Flyntz]

That's exactly the episode I was thinking of - WAY TO READ MY MIND!

[CadmiumYellow]

hah i still don't agree with any of flyntz's points. whatever, i don't think i ever will. i don't think pam's typical. typical would have gotten more caught up in what she thinks she "should" do. typical wouldn't have called off an engagement or put herself out there as much as pam has. you're looking at what she hasn't done, not what she has done. as a rule, i try not to be like that. i am also not necessarily impressed with a person because of their job. but hey, i think what i think and you think what you think. in the end, it's a stupid tv show, and the future of these fake characters remains to be seen anyway. over and out ! thanks to all for putting up with my endless opinions. love.

[WWW.SETH.COM]

Yeah, I mean two people married with jobs with a kid on the way...Those "weak" decisions really didn't work out (that was sarcasm). There's a difference between being weak and choosing to make a compromise for someone you love.

but hey, i think what i think and you think what you think. in the end, it's a stupid tv show, and the future of these fake characters remains to be seen anyway. over and out ! thanks to all for putting up with my endless opinions.

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

Yeah, I mean two people married with jobs with a kid on the way...Those "weak" decisions really didn't work out (that was sarcasm). There's a difference between being weak and choosing to make a compromise for someone you love.

but hey, i think what i think and you think what you think. in the end, it's a stupid tv show, and the future of these fake characters remains to be seen anyway. over and out ! thanks to all for putting up with my endless opinions. love.

I don't think they're weak for the choices they have made, or for the lives they live. Hey, look at me, I am a full-time receptionist, whose major life ambition is to become a full-time wife and mother. I think they are REALISTIC for the choices they made, just not necessarily strong. I mean hey, they chose to pursue romantic happiness over professional happiness, with the hopes that it would make them more overall-happy. I can't diss that strongly. Also you know, they're fake.

That's exactly the episode I was thinking of - WAY TO READ MY MIND!

No problem, Flyntz. And I still think that Jim was pretty lame-o pants in the beginning about the whole Pam thing, but at least it turned out well!

[Larry Flyntz]

On a different note, does anyone really like Californication, or is it just me?

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

It is the kind of show I would love to really like, except I don't get Showtime. See also: The United States of Tara and Weeds, for further information on this subject. 

[WWW.SETH.COM]

While I haven't seen the entirety of the series, I like Weeds (my mom rents the DVDs and I used to end up watching them with her). I think the premise and the acting is great. The writing is decent. But the problem I have had with Weeds and some other shows, is their insistence on ending every season with a cliff-hanger. Does anyone else have a problem with this? This practice irritates me in the extreme. I have trouble committing to any storyline if I know the season is just going to leave me hanging over and over and over.

[Larry Flyntz]

I've been growing a bit weary of Weeds over the last few seasons.  I liked when it was just a suburban housewife who got involved in this business as a way to try to support her family.  It had a lot of moral ambiguity at that point.  In recent seasons, Nancy has just turned into a downright bad mom, and I'm having a hard time rooting for her.  Not to mention how outlandish the stories have gotten over the past two seasons.  It just isn't all that believable anymore.

Also, I totally hate what they did with Shane's character.

With all that said, I still think it's a pretty decent show on the whole.  I still enjoy it, but it's definitely gone downhill.

On the subject of Showtime - I think it's a lot better than HBO.  The United States of Tara and Dexter are just unbelievably awesome.  Californication is very good (not quite awesome, just because of how repetitive it is), and Weeds is still pretty good (see above).  The only thing I watch on HBO these days is Entourage, and that's only "pretty good" (if even that - that season finale was the sappiest BS I have ever seen, not to mention how lousy the acting is).  I really only watch it for Ari.  HBO has really lost its edge.