Race and Humor (video included)

[WWW.SETH.COM]

I would recommend watching this video prior to reading the rest of this lengthy digression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_T781M_FQ

I saw the above link when I was just hanging out cruising the internet the other day. Now, I thought it was funny. I enjoy humor that has a racial edge. I saw Sarah Silverman’s movie/stand-up act Jesus is Magic and I laughed my ass off. I like Dave Chapelle’s racial humor on his Comedy-Central program. I saw Borat in theaters. On the other hand, I’m not Black nor have ever experienced any sort of actual discrimination based on race or sexuality. So remember: this is a twenty-year-old, straight, White man talking about racism. People like my mom, who experienced a lot of anti-semitism as a child, seem to dislike humor that plays off of racial stereotypes. I know that bringing up my mom on this site might be quick way to get her made fun of, but lets not worry about that. I feel her example is valid to whatever discussion does or does not come from this. Even movies I find extremely inoffensive like The Producers, my mother finds somewhat disquieting. Mostly because it invites people laugh at other people dressed up in Nazi regalia.

To change subjects for moment, the guy in the above video has got to almost be suicidal. I have personally seen violence directed against White people by African-Americans for the use of racial slurs. Still, I found the video disturbing, but I still laughed at certain parts. Now like any liberal, I’ve got my fair share of liberal guilt, but do I only find that video somewhat amusing because it will never apply to me? If I was black or I had experienced discrimination personally, I think I would have responded differently.

I actually had to defend the movie Borat to some of my neighbors in Philadelphia (both old enough to have several grandchildren, but still very nice, forgiving people) and before I even began my semi-prepares response, they said that the whole “I‘m Blank, so it’s okay if I‘m racist about Blank” argument wouldn’t fly. So the fact that Sacha Baron Cohen is Israeli was not going to help me. That was fine with me, because I usually take a different approach to conversations like this. The basic line of reasoning I usually follow is that movies like Borat and shows like Chapelle’s Show highlight the ridiculousness of racial stereotypes by turning them into jokes.

Now, I’ve heard a lot of conspiracy theories about why Dave Chapelle decided to stop doing his show. One of them said that he’d been muscled out by Oprah. A more reasonable explanation came from someone I worked with over the summer. I want to preface that by saying that she was Black and (like pretty much all of the Black people I worked with) found Chapelle’s Show hilarious.  Her explanation was that Chapelle intended to make fun of racial stereotypes while entertaining a predominantly Black audience. The problem was that his racially-charged show became a hit with an enormous white audience. The result being that whenever there was a joke where the punchline ended with the word “nigger,” a lot of White people were laughing about it. Not only that, My friend claimed that the step‘n-fetchit character in the last episode of the “lost episodes” was the reason Chapelle walked off the show.

The Chapelle predicament illustrates one of the most basic problems people have with racially-based jokes. If the people who the jokes are about start taking pride in those jokes, the people who do not belong to that minority will begin believing the stereotypes are either true or that they are okay to perpetuate. I personally do not think this is true. I like to think that I can make a joke based on race in the proper context because I am not a racist. But does that make perpetuating stereotypes through humor okay?

Basically, I think that telling a racially-based joke in the proper context is fine. I’ve had Black friends joke with me about my Jewish background and they have laughed with me when I joke about their own ethnicity. I know people make fun of the “some of my best friends are Black” defense, but does it have no merit? I do not believe that we live in a society without racism or discrimination. But should that mean that jokes from people like Dave Chapelle, Sarah Silverman and Sacha Baron Cohen are taboo? Are they just keeping racism alive in humor or alleviating the problem by making it a joke?

I know discrimination is a touchy subject. Any thoughts?

[Violent Unrest in Allentown]

Space Pirates used to rely on racial based humor for laughs. Sometimes we still do. In the sense of our entire community, I know there was a point (and I can say this for a majority of people who post here) that we used "Jew" and other insulting terms regularly in the place of real jokes. I am guilty of this.

My theory on why this happened is not because we're racist/sexist/communist. We like extreme humor. At the time, using racially charged slurs was shocking and therefore appealing to us. There were no negative feelings towards the groups that we used in our lame one-liners, and if it still happens (it does) there still isn't any venom laced between the words.

Personally, I'm embarrassed for doing it as much as I did. For one, it's hard to explain why I used nigger in a comic or an update to people who don't know this community very well. Another reason I's like to put it all behind me is that it's a cheap shot. I like good jokes. I like them to be complicated and clever. Racism isn't clever. Racist jokes are like Family Guy jokes. Everyone's heard them and only morons think their really funny anymore.

[WWW.SETH.COM]

I don't think you have any reason to be embarrassed. Shocking humor with a racial undertone is very different from actual racial humor. You could say it's a horse of a different color. I have a friend who uses shocking jokes as a litmus test. If you can understand that he's joking (it's actually harder than it might sound), then you pass the test. I think the context of a joke or slogan is what determines the level of offensiveness.

[Larry Flyntz]

First off, I don't think racial humor perpetuates stereotypes at all. Stereotypes themselves perpetuate stereotypes. Stereotypes are based on truth. By recognizing that and making cracks about it, comics aren't perpetuating anything. Stereotypes can only be perpetuated when actual people act according to stereotypes. We shouldn't blame Dave Chappelle for perpetuating black stereotypes through his jokes; that blame goes to the actually stereotypical black folks.

But, anyway. I think one of the goals of some racial humor is actually to try to disprove stereotypes. For instance, Dave Chappelle is a very well-spoken, relatively eloquent black man. By contrasting that image with the image of stereotypical black folks, he is trying to point out that stereotypes don't have to be true. He's pointing out the ridiculousness of stereotypes, and in a way, calling on black people to strive higher.

But, that only explains black comics who perform for black audiences. What about white comics?

I think the fact that white comics can get away with racial jokes is a sign that we're making some sort of racial progress in this nation. If white comics can get black listeners to laugh at jokes about black people, that is a way of creating a sort of racial unity. The races can come together to laugh at something. And by even bringing up racial stereotypes in their humor, white comics are inherently suggesting that the stereotypes are funny, or ridiculous. A white comic isn't going to say "Man, black people sure are stupid, eh?" But, by making a joke about a silly stereotype, he is asking his audience (white and black and everything in between) to recognize the ridiculousness of said stereotype. That sounds like progress to me.

Very few racial jokes are told with malice. They're used as a means to bring the races together, and I think that's a good thing.

[Rhino......................]

I think my current avatar speaks volumes about how unfunny I find racial stereotypes.

But to seriously answer your question, I think if everyone could just joke around about racism completely without holding back, it would cease to be so powerful. It would become a thing of the past that now we can laugh about, because hey, wasn't that stupid?

[Cowboyninja]

I must admit, that video was funny. Personally, I think racial humor is ok. I think I might be one of the few people on this board who have had harsh racial slurs used against them and I still find it funny. Many of you already know I'm black and white swirl icecream cone of a person. For those who don't...my dad is black, now you know. I've been called oreo and all that crap, someone once thought I was middle eastern and called me a sand nigger and a camel jockey. To be honest I think racial humor can be a weak cop out but if done right, is amazing.
For example, someone like Carlos Mencia. He just says black people are poor haha. Mexicans don't have auto insurance haha. Asians do math haha. Gays have gay sex haha. Beaner, chink, fag, nigger haha. That kind of humor is just weak and uninspired.

Now take Dave Chapelle. He had Black White Supremecist sketches and The Nigger family which was a family comprised of white people. His comedy not only utilized racial humor but poked fun at how stupid racisim can be.

Well I'm tired so I hope those thoughts were coherent.

[oatmeal fetish....]

I must admit, that video was funny. Personally, I think racial humor is ok. I think I might be one of the few people on this board who have had harsh racial slurs used against them and I still find it funny. Many of you already know I'm black and white swirl icecream cone of a person. For those who don't...my dad is black, now you know. I've been called oreo and all that crap, someone once thought I was middle eastern and called me a sand nigger and a camel jockey. To be honest I think racial humor can be a weak cop out but if done right, is amazing.
For example, someone like Carlos Mencia. He just says black people are poor haha. Mexicans don't have auto insurance haha. Asians do math haha. Gays have gay sex haha. Beaner, chink, fag, nigger haha. That kind of humor is just weak and uninspired.

Now take Dave Chapelle. He had Black White Supremecist sketches and The Nigger family which was a family comprised of white people. His comedy not only utilized racial humor but poked fun at how stupid racisim can be.

Well I'm tired so I hope those thoughts were coherent.

I pretty much agree with all of this - like everything, there is a level of taste that can be used, and in moderation, it can ve really funny

[الله أكبر]

Some Italians hate us, some love us. The first time I went to Italy, I got flipped off by a group of Italian kids about my age who muttered "va ffunculo, Americano" which means "go fuck yourself, American." However, I've met plenty of Italians who were more than delighted to show me their prowess with the English language, speaking Italian with me, etc. What I think it breaks down to is that Bush is always portrayed in a negative light in the Italian media, and that somehow transcends Bush and comes to mean hatred for all Americans.

As for racial humor, I always steered clear of it, especially in high school. As Seth could tell you, FSS was very much an egalitarian society crammed into one city block. However, as soon as I got into college, I started using words like "chink" and "nigger." Thanks spacepiratesltd.com! Anyways, I usually used them in a sarcastic manner, because I find that to actually use these words in an offensive context is ridiculous. I'm not quite sure that using them sarcastically is alright anymore. I try not to use these words at all. Specifically, the word "nigger" is tough because it seems to have different meanings in different contexts.

I grew up in a neighborhood that was racially intermixed. There were Jews, Italians, Irish and African-Americans. I never thought of black people as having characteristics that made them different, aside from the color of their skin. In 3rd or 4th grade, I experienced what some would call racial discrimination (though I wouldn't term it so). I was in the school's bathroom, when 3 black kids walked up to me, shoved me in the corner and started saying things like "what you gonna do, white boy?" To this day, I question why I had to be "white boy." Most other bullies used words like "wimp" and son on. Not once in my life have I thought that the color of one's skin was grounds for discrimination of any kind.

As for the video...I thought it was funny. What I think it all breaks down to is that people will find different things funny, based on their past experiences and general opinions. If that dude wanted to risk getting his ass kicked for a few laughs, I'd support that. I don't feel like a racist after having laughed at it.

I ask though, would it be any different if, say, a black man dressed like a Crip were to go to a white neighborhood and spout off words like "honkey," "cracker" and so on?

[FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON]

I ask though, would it be any different if, say, a black man dressed like a Crip were to go to a white neighborhood and spout off words like "honkey," "cracker" and so on?

I think its interesting you brought that up.  I watched the video and didn't really think it was that funny.  I realize it was supposed to be, shock humour and ridiculous and everything, but its the question Mits posed that is what bothers me about the video.  If the situation were reversed, as Mits suggested, I don't believe the white reaction would be the same as the black.  Most white folk would probably just be quietly offended and obviously uncomfortable, but would probably still help the black man.  The biggest thing is that the white guy dressed as a KKK member wasn't REALLY being all that beligerent.  Most of the time he didn't get rude until service was automatically refused to him because of his attire.  I don't know, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that what that video seems to say is that because black people have been the subject of terrible and very often violent racism in the past, it makes their own violent behaviour excusable in certain situations.  And I think that's bullshit.

[Violent Unrest in Allentown]

I think its interesting you brought that up.  I watched the video and didn't really think it was that funny.  I realize it was supposed to be, shock humour and ridiculous and everything, but its the question Mits posed that is what bothers me about the video.  If the situation were reversed, as Mits suggested, I don't believe the white reaction would be the same as the black.  Most white folk would probably just be quietly offended and obviously uncomfortable, but would probably still help the black man.  The biggest thing is that the white guy dressed as a KKK member wasn't REALLY being all that beligerent.  Most of the time he didn't get rude until service was automatically refused to him because of his attire.  I don't know, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that what that video seems to say is that because black people have been the subject of terrible and very often violent racism in the past, it makes their own violent behaviour excusable in certain situations.  And I think that's bullshit.

KKK = Organization to kill black people.
Crips = Gang that sells drugs and fights with other gangs.

I can see why they would be a little more offended and it is not bullshit.

[الله أكبر]

Perhaps using the Crips was a bad example; maybe I even stereotyped black people by saying that. I was trying to draw a parallel between two groups. There really isn't a black supremacist movement parallel to the KKK. The closest things I can think of are the Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam, but those groups are militant in their representation, not necessarily racist.

But since I started on the Crips...

I agree with Dan; there is a big difference between the Crips and the KKK. Their being offended is understandable, especially when the guy walks in using stereotypes. You'll notice he walked into the dry cleaners and greeted the guy as "Tyrone" before said service had been refused. I'd say he's the initiator of any belligerence that followed.

Personally, what I found most funny was the guy's portrayal of how ignorant white racists are. Any decent, rational person would never walk into a store and spout shit like that.

[Violent Unrest in Allentown]

Perhaps using the Crips was a bad example; maybe I even stereotyped black people by saying that. I was trying to draw a parallel between two groups. There really isn't a black supremacist movement parallel to the KKK. The closest things I can think of are the Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam, but those groups are militant in their representation, not necessarily racist.

But since I started on the Crips...

I agree with Dan; there is a big difference between the Crips and the KKK. Their being offended is understandable, especially when the guy walks in using stereotypes. You'll notice he walked into the dry cleaners and greeted the guy as "Tyrone" before said service had been refused. I'd say he's the initiator of any belligerence that followed.

Personally, what I found most funny was the guy's portrayal of how ignorant white racists are. Any decent, rational person would never walk into a store and spout shit like that.

I agree with this. If you don't think that guy is being belligerent, then you didn't get the point of the video. I'm sure his point wasn't "Man look at how much black people suck!" It was most likely "Let's see how much I can get away with before being killed."

[GREGORIAN CHANT!!!]

Five Percenters would probably be as close as you can get to the KKK.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Percenters