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Author Topic: Gays in the scouts  (Read 1256 times)
Larry Flyntz
Fishy With the Eye Fallin' Out

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« on: September 07, 2006, 10:19:13 PM »

This is an interesting issue. As you may or may not know, the Boy Scouts do not allow gays. Their reasoning is this: part of the goal of the Scouts is to promote "moral straightness." It is a rather common belief that homosexuality is contrary to moral straightness. Since the Scouts is a private organization, it is allowed to express the belief that homosexuality is contrary to moral straightness by not allowing gays. In essence, it is a First Amendment issue. The Scouts' right to express its philosophy would be hindered by being forced to allow gays.

While I largely support gay rights, I find this argument very compelling. Can someone debunk it?
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Jelone
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2006, 12:16:51 AM »

Promoting discrimination isn't exactly "moral straightness" now, is it? Sexual orientation never really came up when i was a scout. That's just plain ol' awkward, regardless of where you like to stick your peener. i feel homosexuality should be a non-issue because, really, sexuality in general is rarely, if ever, appropriate to bring up until the scouts are teens, and by that point, does it even really matter?

And what is "moral straightness" anyway? Should the scout leader also therefore be a die-hard pro-life supporter, because abortion is viewed by some as "immoral"? Can he support the troops in Iraq, or would that put too much of an emphasis on violence?

i always wonder what would happen if a scout came out of the closet, as of opposed to a scout master. sure, you're way too young to really know your sexuality when you're a cub scout, but suppose you're 18 and you just made eagle scout and realized you were a homosexual? are you suddenly no longer a model citizen despite your boss collection of badges, pins, and knots?

Of course, it's their club house, so whatever.
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Larry Flyntz
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2006, 08:41:12 AM »

Quote from: "Jelone"
Of course, it's their club house, so whatever.


Exactly. I agree with everything you said previously in that homosexuality, in my opinion, has nothing to do with moral straightness. But, it's the Scouts' job to interpret their oath, not mine.
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FAGGOT WATCHIN TRON
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2006, 11:00:11 AM »

Quote from: "Jelone"
i always wonder what would happen if a scout came out of the closet, as of opposed to a scout master. sure, you're way too young to really know your sexuality when you're a cub scout, but suppose you're 18 and you just made eagle scout and realized you were a homosexual? are you suddenly no longer a model citizen despite your boss collection of badges, pins, and knots?.


That's actually a really interesting question.  Okay, so I only know one Eagle Scout, and that's Dan, so we're using him for an example.  Dan paid his dues, lead a life exemplary of the Scouts and their beliefs, worked hard, earned himself those badges, helped old ladies cross the street, and made Eagle. That's a pretty big deal.  That's pretty much a stamp saying you exemplify what the Scouts are all about.  Now what if Dan decided, after all this, that he was gay?  What would happen?  Would anything even happen?  I mean, do the Scouts have someone who comes and checks up on you after you make Eagle to make sure you haven't turned to the dark side?  Or what if they just found out by dumb chance?  Would he then have to relinquish all his badges and whatnot, and be stripped of his Eagle status?  Or would they never even know and would nothing happen other than Dan would start having sex with boys?  Does Dan know?  Do any of our former Scouts have these answers?  If so, for the love of god tell me so I can start getting some goddamned sleep at night!

And as far as allowing gays, I personally feel the Boy Scouts in general is a fucked up little club with lots of rules that are grossly biased and far too right-wing for my delicate socially-leftist pallete.  However, I guess it is their constitutional right to teach little boys to hate the gays and non-christians, so I suppose I can't mess with that.  Plus, those soap-box derbies are cool.
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Violent Unrest in Allentown
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2006, 11:30:48 AM »

Quote from: "hothotpot"
That's actually a really interesting question.  Okay, so I only know one Eagle Scout, and that's Dan, so we're using him for an example.  Dan paid his dues, lead a life exemplary of the Scouts and their beliefs, worked hard, earned himself those badges, helped old ladies cross the street, and made Eagle. That's a pretty big deal.  That's pretty much a stamp saying you exemplify what the Scouts are all about.  Now what if Dan decided, after all this, that he was gay?  What would happen?  Would anything even happen?  I mean, do the Scouts have someone who comes and checks up on you after you make Eagle to make sure you haven't turned to the dark side?  Or what if they just found out by dumb chance?  Would he then have to relinquish all his badges and whatnot, and be stripped of his Eagle status?  Or would they never even know and would nothing happen other than Dan would start having sex with boys?  Does Dan know?  Do any of our former Scouts have these answers?  If so, for the love of god tell me so I can start getting some goddamned sleep at night!

And as far as allowing gays, I personally feel the Boy Scouts in general is a fucked up little club with lots of rules that are grossly biased and far too right-wing for my delicate socially-leftist pallete.  However, I guess it is their constitutional right to teach little boys to hate the gays and non-christians, so I suppose I can't mess with that.  Plus, those soap-box derbies are cool.


First of all, nothing would happen. There's no commissioner who goes around to each and every Eagle Scout and checks up on you and asks you what bars you go to. If I became gay, I wouldn't have it revoked. This is a result of me being what they thought a scout should be at the time I made Eagle. No matter what happens to me or what I do, I will always be an Eagle Scout. It's up to me to bring honor to that title and be a good person for the rest of my life.

As far as gays not allowed in the Scouts, I think it's a backlash from troops in areas (central PA for example) who have no gay community and disrespect gay people in their every day lives  - OUTSIDE OF THE BOY SCOUTS. Take the Cradle of Liberty Council in Philadelphia: to think that scouts in this part of the country are all gay bashers - people who live in a metropolitan area that interfaces with a large gay community and embraces media that star gay celebrities - is ludicrous.

For the record, I feel that sexual identity should play no role in evaluating a scout and gay scouts and adult leaders ought to be able to participate if they want to. On numerous occasions I’ve spent seven days with 300 other teenage boys in the middle of fucking nowhere, and I can tell you that I saw some borderline gay shit right there.

In my troop and Cub Scout pack, I never, ever felt that a greater force's ideals were being unfairly impressed on me. And when certain philosophies were applied to my little brain, they were things that every human being should try to incorporate into their lives (see: Scout Law). The exception is of course "reverent," which promotes commitment to one's faith. Some Scouts may not practice a religion.

In public school's you pledge allegiance to one Christian God. You're required by law to attend. How's that for a fucked up club?

Quote
Scout Law

TRUSTWORTHY
    A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him.

LOYAL
    A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation.

HELPFUL
    A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward.

FRIENDLY
    A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own.

COURTEOUS
    A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together.

KIND
    A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason.

OBEDIENT
    A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them.

CHEERFUL
    A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.

THRIFTY
    A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

BRAVE
    A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him.

CLEAN
    A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.

REVERENT
    A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.



Also, pine wood dreby rocked hardcore and I still have my cars which were all #25. Fuck yeah.
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Jelone
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2006, 01:10:49 PM »

i totally still have my derby cars too.

fuck the rain gutter regatta. that shit sucked. and whatever the fuck the rocket ship race was supposed to be called. those things always exploded like 2 seconds in.
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Rhino......................
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2006, 12:29:50 AM »

We did a sailboat derby with balsa wood. It was actually pretty gay. But the next year we had balsa wood rockets with rubber band powered propellars on the front. That was tits, I tell you what.

Also, in agreement with what's been said yah yah.
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